The following was on the PBS News Hour the other night, it needs to be listened to and the transcript read, copied, and the points used!
This was a Debate featuring former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, he's now a counselor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies; and Walter Russell Mead, the Henry Kissinger Senior Fellow for U.S. Foreign Policy at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Listening to Mead brought back memories of long ago, you could tell the Kissinger tie was Engrained, thing is you could understand him, no accent.
You can listen to it here President's Baghdad Trip Sparks U.S. Iraq Policy Debate or listen and read the transcript HERE
It is what Brzeinski is saying, and taking no Bull from Mead's attempts to Spin, are what are important and need to be used, here's a snippet:
Gentlemen, welcome.
Dr. Brzezinski, the president ended his news conference saying, "Going to war in Iraq was worth it. It was necessary, and it will succeed." Do you agree?
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, Former National Security Adviser to President Carter: No, I do not. I don't think it was worth it. I don't think it is succeeding, and I think we ought to think very seriously as to how we can extract still some degree of success from what, obviously, has been a major misadventure.
The above starts it off, here's abit more:
BRZEZINSKI, Now, this is what the president actually visited. This is an aerial map of Baghdad and, within it, the viewers can see a small spot. That is the so-called Green Zone, a fortified American fortress housing the American embassy, the American high command, and all the major institutions of the Iraqi, as he said, free and democratic government, in an American fortress.
This is worse than in the bad days of Vietnam, when the South Vietnamese regime was still operating from its own palaces, had its own army and so forth. We do not have in Iraq a free and democratic government that is functioning.
Many have been saying similar, and have been heard, but Not Listened To! Now is the time not only to listen but to bring forward, over and over, so all will here and understand!
Here's abit more:
WALTER RUSSELL MEAD, Council on Foreign Relations: Well, I think that's -- you know, there is, obviously, some truth to it, but I wouldn't be quite so grim about it, because, particularly making the comparison with South Vietnam, the big difference in South Vietnam is we had a government but we could never quite find enough of a people who wanted to support that government.
In Iraq, I think it's very clear that the large majority of Iraqis wants this government to work. Now, whether they'll be able to succeed, that's another question.
The second point sounded just like Kissenger way back than. The first describes both Debacles, for an Insurgency, in Anothers Country, cannot take place, grow, and become more entrenched without the support of the people, it's that simple! The invading force are fighting shadows, knowing not who are the so called enemy nor innocent civilian, except for the Kids being Killed and Maimed!!
and abit more:
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: I would have to have an enormous magnifying glass to be able to see them that way. The fact of the matter is: The government is meeting in an American fortress.
If it is meeting in an American fortress, it is because it is not able to operate outside of an American fortress. That tells you a lot. The notions that a new plan is being put in to enhance security in Baghdad makes me think of a person in the midst of a huge fire in a house who all of a sudden announces that he has a new plan for the installation of air conditioning.
BRZEZINSKI, And, last but not least, we have to get rid of the mindset, which is really by now totally ahistorical -- we no longer live in the age of colonialism. We no longer have to assume "the white man's burden" in order to civilize others, and I'm using these phrases in quotation marks.
The Iraqis are a historical people. They're quite capable of handling things on their own, provided their leaders are real leaders of the country and not essentially proteges of an occupying power hiding in an American fortress.
This one is an attempted joke, it has to be:
WALTER RUSSELL MEAD: Well, certainly, the United States overthrew Saddam Hussein, but the Iraqi leadership emerged, first of all, from a constitutional process, then from elections, and then from a political process, which the United States did not control.
But nobody laughed, but me, so they moved on.
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: Well, it's worth a try. The question is: How long do you continue trying?
Now, Walter says, if I understood him correctly, that he's willing to wait three more years to see if the present government leaves the Green Zone, the American fortress. Well, how many thousands of Iraqis will die in the meantime? How many hundreds, how many thousands of Americans will die in the meantime?
How much will our prestige internationally decline? How many billions of dollars will we spend on this?
This was a reality point:
JIM LEHRER: So pull out, Dr. Brzezinski, now?
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI: Pull out in an intelligent fashion. I have been advocating a four-point program which, in a nutshell, is the following.
Talk at length with the Iraq leadership as to when we have to leave. Those who say, "We don't want you to leave," are the ones who leave when we leave. The real leaders, probably not living in the Green Zone, will say, "Yes, leave." I suspect Sistani is among them.
There's more just Listen to and Read the Transcript, listening is a much better option, you could tell Brzezinski was Fed Up!!
I'll end with this. I think we're past the point of any Hopefull Obtion as to the outcome of this Debacle. If we pull out we'll be saving U.S. Lives and any other Foreigners of the so called Coalition, but the Sectarian Violence will Continue, for now it has become more than just getting rid of the Occupation Forces, Hatreds have built where No One, including the Religious Leaders, can Stop the Violence!
If you listened to bush's speach, the other day, they know this as well. Once again he kept refering to the Iraqi's, setting up the blame game when All Hell Breaks Loose. The Cabal will simply walk away and the talking points will be that 'It's The Iraqi's Failure', not the Destructive Neo-Cons!!
We Need To Pull Out Now, All Occupation Forces! The only option that makes sense is filling the Violent Void with Arab Nations/Arab League, of the same religious factions, and Pray they can bring some sort of order and peaceful solutions. It's their Region, their Neighbor, and their People!!
This Country will have more to worry about than the Hatreds Building Towards It from outside. Keep in mind the Mutiple Tours taking place in both Theaters, Iraq and Afganistan, think of the recent reports of suspected Atrosities, think what this is doing to many of the Troops, Male and Female, when Mind Goes, it makes No Differance which sex!
This Country Had Better Be More Than Willing To Take Care Of This Generations Returning Veterans Or It Will Come Back To Haught The Very Soil We Are On!!
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