First Strikes: Bombing Civilians

The discussion on the Bill Moyers Journal, last night, shows the problem with War, Wars of Choice, Occupations and especially Guerilla/Insurgent Warfare, of which all conflicts are, and have been, now for many years, and will continue to be!

And why there is Criminal Terrorism and the rise of!

Bill Moyers Journal, January 30, 2009

Bill Moyers sits down with historian Marilyn Young, author of the forthcoming "Bombing Civilians: A Twentieth-century History" and former Pentagon official Pierre Sprey, who developed military planes and helped found the military reform movement.

Watch the Discussion

Sprey says:

Does it kill the person it's intended to kill? Not often. And when it does, it usually kills a bunch of other people around. And that, of course, raises the problem that the Predator and the missiles become a recruiting tool for the opposition and — beyond a shadow of a doubt — recruit more opposition than we get rid of by killing the one person at the table that we wanted to kill.

Read the Transcript, some cuts from:

BILL MOYERS: Marilyn, what did you think last weekend when four days into the Obama administration we read those reports of the strikes in Pakistan?

MARILYN YOUNG: My heart sank. It absolutely sank. It had been very high. I had been, like I think the rest of the country, feeling immensely encouraged and inspired by this new administration and by the energy and vigor with which he began. And then comes this piece of old stuff on approach to a complicated question that in comes in the form of a bomb and a bomb in the most dangerous of all places. And, yeah, my heart sank, literally.

BILL MOYERS: Our military, Pierre, says it's sure that it's striking militants in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And that they're not targeting civilians. Can they be sure? From your experience, can they be sure?

PIERRE SPREY: I'm sure that their purpose is to strike militants. I have no doubt of that whatsoever. But with the weapons they use and with the extremely flawed intelligence they have.

MARILYN YOUNG: Yes.

PIERRE SPREY: I'd be astonished if one in five people they kill or wound is in fact, a militant.

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean "flawed intelligence"?

PIERRE SPREY: You can't tell with a camera or an infrared sensor or something whether somebody's a Taliban. In the end, you're relying on either, you know, some form of intercepted communications, which doesn't point at a person. It just, you know, points at a radio or a cell phone or something like that. Or, most likely, you're relying on some Afghani of unknown veracity and unknown motivation and who may, may very well be trying to settle a blood feud rather than give you good information.

Further On:

BILL MOYERS: I don't understand that because George W. Bush defined this as a war on terror. And I think Obama must be using the same invocation, you know?

PIERRE SPREY: Exactly.

BILL MOYERS: This is all part of the war on terror. He said it in his inaugural address.

PIERRE SPREY: Yes, he said that. I was appalled. You talk about our hearts sinking.

PIERRE SPREY: 9/11 was not an act of war.

BILL MOYERS: What was it?

PIERRE SPREY: It was a criminal act. It was a simple.

MARILYN YOUNG: Right.

PIERRE SPREY: Criminal act by a bunch of lunatic fanatic violent people who needed to be tracked down and apprehended and tried exactly as you would with any other lunatic violent person, like we do with our own domestic terrorists, like the guy who bombed the Oklahoma federal building.

BILL MOYERS: Federal building. Right.

PIERRE SPREY: You know? Exactly the same thing we did to him is what we should have launched on a huge basis, of course, on a huge international police basis and not called it.

MARILYN YOUNG: And there would have been totally international support.

PIERRE SPREY: It's not a war.

MARILYN YOUNG: Right.

PIERRE SPREY: We, by calling it a war, we have glorified al Qaeda. We have glorified the cause of violent radical Islam. All that tiny minority have become heroes. And we made them heroes. We made their propaganda. We made their case for them.

'Shoutout', 'Action', 'Winter Soldier', 'Congressional Hearings'

On this day, 3-19-08, the 5th anniversary of the Occupation of Iraq, some may attend the thousands of candlelight vigils around the country.

Some may have other vigils of remembrance planned.

Some may write of their feelings.

Some may have other ways to observe and remember the Fallen and Maimed of our Military and the Tens of Thousands of the Innocent Killed and Maimed and Millions thrust into refugee status due to our countries Failed Policies.

Some may do nothing.

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 3988

Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 2

Total 3990

DoD Confirmation List

I have a request that I would ask any and all reading this to please do.

This past weekend an Important Historical Event took place, War Comes Home - Winter Soldier II

Listen to a A Montage That Cuts to the Heart of the War and Winter Soldier {mp3}

You can listen to the testimonies Here with photo's and much more. You can view a number of Video's, of the testimonies, at The Real News Network along with other outstanding News updates from Iraq. You can also find the testimony Video's at the site of the Iraq/Afgan Veterans who organized the Truth of Occupation -IVAW as well as much more, along with the ability To Support and Help As They Grow

They have given their Testimonies, those Testimonies, though not carried nor reported as they should have been by the mainstream media, are now in the record as Audio, Video, and Transcripts.

All that is needed now is to get them into the Congressional Record as were the Winter Soldier Investigations of 1971

Immediately following the WSI, Senator George McGovern and Representative John Conyers announced that they were calling for congressional investigations based on the testimony. This announcement was received with skepticism by the veterans, but VVAW representatives agreed to meet with McGovern and Conyers.

The Iraq/Afgan Soldiers who testified requested that a Congressional Investigation be held, most, if not all, who testified this past weekend, also the 40th Anniversary of the My Lai Massacre, which in part sparked the first 'Winter Soldier Investigations', are more than willing to bring their testimonies in front of The Peoples Congress to be Sworn in, Under Oath, as the first 'Winter Soldier' to bring better understanding to those who don't serve, have never served, nor lived in theaters of conflict occupations, the Realities of War, Especially Wars of Choice, Not Need!

These testimonies, like the first 'Winter Soldier', cover a wide veriaty of issues as to the military, spoken or understood policies of a combat theater of operation, treatment of returning veterans, treatment of female veterans, hazing within the ranks, treatment of civilian populations, possible atrocities, possible war crimes, what War Is!

Many of us have written our congressional representatives requesting a Congeressional Investigation and Hearing on the testimonies given and any more that will come forward from these failed foreign policies of civilian and military leadership.

I ask that those reading take a few minutes and Also Write, or Call your own Congressional Representatives and request same, to get the sworn testimonies into the public record, The Congressional Record of Fact!

I'm not quite done yet, with my request to you, though:

Once again small groups have come forth, even before the testimonies started, they were calling these Brave Soldiers, of whom these groups say they 'Support', Fakes and Liers, Verbally Spitting on the troops, as happened after Vietnam! Two of these groups, a tiny contingement, 30 to 40 people, of 'eagles up', i.e. 'gathering of eagles', or whatever next weeks name might be, and 'move america forward' were there, outside of DC this past weekend, speaking the same talking points to the few who would listen, there's a few interview video's at The Real News Network that will give you the inside to their ideology.

Most of those that start these groups have been doing so for alot of years, mostly since 'Nam, they claim proof of their rethoric yet when confronted for some reason that 'proof' can't be produced, words of anger and hate are the only thing used.

I would further my request, as many of us all ready have done, that you include these groups, any others you might know of, and those using todays technology passing the same rethoric of false claims and slander to be included in the Congressional Investigation and Hearings!

If they have any first hand proof, of their slanderous charges, than it should be Finally Placed into the Public Record for All To See, to vent, and to dispel!

Let us close the door on this form of Verbal Spitting, especially on the Military Troops they claim to Support, as these troop return home, repeating what was done to us 'Nam Vets, speaking and living the experiances of War that these groups haven't.

Have them testify along side those who have served and are more than willing to archive their testimonies into the public record!

Please contact your representatives today, and over the next couple of days, and request that congress open investigations and hearings ASAP!!

Peace and
Thank You!!

If You Visit

'The Real News Network' link, above, at the top of their list, just before the video's about 'Winter Soldier' you will find two New Reports: Baghdad: City of Walls!

Watch them, to better understand our Occupation Control over an Innocent Country and it's People!

Would You Want To Live This Way??